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Cronologia di Grendizer: una versione giapponese

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view post Posted on 18/10/2010, 19:50     +1   -1

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CITAZIONE (ataru.m @ 18/10/2010, 18:13)
Joe7,

About Maria...Little.

She did not go to school.

First of all, I thank you for your kindness and willingness to answer my questions.
:face5.gif:

I never thought that Mary did not go to school ... I think she spent a lonely life before she met Duke! :huh.gif:

CITAZIONE (ataru.m @ 18/10/2010, 18:13)
She fled to Earth.
Maria, with Chamberlain lived on Earth.She has lived in hiding in the forest with Chamberlain.
She herself, there is little memory of Freed star.
She believed that "I am an earthling."

This too is a surprise ... so Mary did not know she was an alien of Fleed! :via:

CITAZIONE (ataru.m @ 18/10/2010, 18:13)
About Koji
Koji but why not take the Mazinger "Mazinger is inferior in combat"
"Mazinger fought enough. To rest", etc..There are many theories.

Now,Mazinger Z and Great Mazinger, in [Robot Museum]

Mazinger was then "retired" ... interesting, but it seems strange to consider a robot as a brother ... not to mention that with Mazinger Z Koji could perhaps save more lives than with TFO. What do you think? :huh.gif:
 
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view post Posted on 18/10/2010, 20:29     +1   -1

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CITAZIONE (ieko @ 18/10/2010, 19:00)
Hi,I'd like to say thank you all look at my drawing.

And I'd like to express admiration for Isotta.

Now, I'll try to answer to Joe's questions.

Your response is INCREDIBLY detailed, Ieko ... thank you very much! :face5.gif:
Now I comment your answers... :face5.gif:

CITAZIONE (ieko @ 18/10/2010, 19:00)
- Why Vega has ever sent only one enemy monster in each episode, instead of many? There is a rational explanation?

I don't have exact answer of this question but several reasons will be possible to present.
1. Affinity for Japanese historical drama
When I read this question ,I remembered a similar question about Japanese historical drama.
In Japanese typical historical drama a lot of villain samurais enclose hero never slash all at once.

It 's true, I read something similar in the novels about Samurai code of honor ... :fascio:

CITAZIONE (ieko @ 18/10/2010, 19:00)
It comes from features of Japanese fencing, or manner.
TOEI(TOEI COMPANY LIMITED is a Japanese company which produce and distribute the movie) made big success by distribution of historical drama originally.

I really did not know about this... :huh.gif:

CITAZIONE (ieko @ 18/10/2010, 19:00)
There were the producer came from that field to the staff of Grendizer.
They attacked importance to the beauty of form and to show the hero in the best way as hero to the audience in the sword swinger.
So Grendizer may be under the influence of Japanese historical drama in the way of battle.

This is a very plausible hypothesis ...

CITAZIONE (ieko @ 18/10/2010, 19:00)
Incidentally, TOEI adopted STAR-SYSTEM. It used to make the movie by all star cast for the summer vacation and new year.
After declining of historical drama, In 1973 TOEI announced to release the Devilman VS Mazinger Z for summer vacation movie.
Children were very excited. How gorgeous!
I remember boys discussed about which is stronger than the other in the classroom.

Ieko...you have no idea about the effect it was in past when in Italy we boys saw "Mazinger against Grendizer" at the cinema ... it was a legend, believe me! :rotfl:

CITAZIONE (ieko @ 18/10/2010, 19:00)
Till 60's historical drama was most popular amusement for the general public.
After samurai movie, Mazinger Z, Great Mazinger,Grendizer became star for children. It's no doubt.

I believe you! :foglia:

CITAZIONE (ieko @ 18/10/2010, 19:00)
2.A problem from the point of view of produce.
At that time the cost for the production was less than today. the schedule was probably very tight.
So the staff didn't have enough time to design plural enemies.

This is also a good hypothesis. In some episodes, however, appeared more than a monster: when I saw this, I was really happy! :nagai:

CITAZIONE (ieko @ 18/10/2010, 19:00)
3,King Vega's ambition
King Vega had an ambition to conquer the universe.
Blacky(sorry,I don't know what he is called in Italy.)was a leader of attack to a direction the earth.

In Italy, "Blacky" is called "Hydargos".

CITAZIONE (ieko @ 18/10/2010, 19:00)
So Vega may had the war here and there and enemy monsters may be supplied to each battle field.

It means that Vega considered unimportant to conquer the Earth? It is possible, at least initially, before the planet Vega was destroyed ...

CITAZIONE (ieko @ 18/10/2010, 19:00)
- Why Koji never used to help Grendizer with the Mazinga Z? (I know that these questions are sloppy but it would be interesting to hear what the Japanese fans think about: they are more informed of us!)
After the battle with Empire Mycenae,Mazinger Z and Great Mazinger were on display as a symbol of peace in the museum.
Mazinger Z was a precious legacy from his grandfather and just like a brother ,not only a robot for Koji.
He wanted to let Mazinger Z take a rest calmly and fight against new enemy by himself carry on his father's wish as possible as he can.

This is in fact the same explanation of Ataru; besides, I read this on the comic book "Dynamic Heroes." But I do not understand very well: how do Koji consider a robot as a "brother a little tired"? Not to mention that, with Mazinger Z, Koji would save many lives, rather than with TFO ... at least I think ... :via:

CITAZIONE (ieko @ 18/10/2010, 19:00)
- How is possible that the guardian of Maria has never noticed the coming of Vega and Grendizer on Earth, while was careful to Maria?
The guardian and Maria lived in countryside in isolation. So it was possible he didn't have exact information about the coming of Vega.
Even if he noticed he couldn't do nothing. And he believed that Duke was dead, So he had to hide himself and Maria.

It is possible...then the guardian and Mary had to live in a very isolated way...

CITAZIONE (ieko @ 18/10/2010, 19:00)
- But what was Mary doing on Earth, before she meets Duke? She went to school? She studied? She knew that she was an alien?
She didn't go to school. The guardian taught her. She lost her memories till she saw Duke again.

Interesting...the guardian taught her. This could explain everything...

CITAZIONE (ieko @ 18/10/2010, 19:00)
- What relationship there is between Naida and Duke? They were engaged? And so was Rubina, Actarus girlfriend? And how could they be both girlfriends of the same man?
Naida was a friend of Duke's child hood.

A friend of childhood? I understand...this could explain their relation... :face5.gif:

CITAZIONE (ieko @ 18/10/2010, 19:00)
When Rubina came to Fleed to study, Duke was thirteen and Rubina was ten years old.
Duke hasn't talked about his mind. In the episode 72 he said to Koji Rubina and him were to married if the war hadn't broken out.

Then Duke would become the husband of Rubina, not of Naida. Interesting... :nagai:

CITAZIONE (ieko @ 18/10/2010, 19:00)
Duke and Naida felt love dimly each other but Duke was prince.

Then, Naida could not possibly marry Duke because she was not a princess? :huh.gif:

CITAZIONE (ieko @ 18/10/2010, 19:00)
It was possible Duke accepted his destiny as prince and he admired Rubina's nobleness and beauty,too.

I also think this is a good hypothesis...

CITAZIONE (ieko @ 18/10/2010, 19:00)
There are many suppositions, this is one of them.

It's also seems fact that the script writers sometimes didn't care so much about chronological order and details or integrity of each episode.

Ehm...even this is a good hypothesis... :rotfl: :rotfl:

CITAZIONE (ieko @ 18/10/2010, 19:00)
- Mineo lived in the same planet that Rubina administered?
I think so.

Maybe they have met, who knows ... :face5.gif:

CITAZIONE (ieko @ 18/10/2010, 19:00)
- The Fleedians were peaceful, I know it: then, how could they make a weapon like Grendizer?
Duke' father planned to build almighty robot Grendizer as a guardian god for the peace of the universe.

Goldrake (sorry, I mean Grendizer: we call Grendizer "Goldrake" here in Italy) was a guardian god? This is really a surprise... :huh.gif:

CITAZIONE (ieko @ 18/10/2010, 19:00)
I think my explanations are not enough for you.
There must be someone like an expert who is much better than me.

You are wrong: your explanations are very good and very detailed. My deepest congratulations! :dio: :dio: :dio:

CITAZIONE (ieko @ 18/10/2010, 19:00)
What I told are some of guesses but there are facts,too.

If they can be something help to understand or refer and enjoy the story, It's my pleasure.

Thank you for your reading :dio:

Thank you for your answers! Perhaps I have other questions...but these answers are really good. Thank you very much again! :inchino:
 
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isotta72
view post Posted on 19/10/2010, 09:28     +1   -1




Ho trasferito anche nel primo post domande e risposte, e ringrazio Joe, Ieko, Ataru e Runkirya per la traduzione.
Mi ha colpito il fatto che l'invio da parte dei nemici di un solo mostro alla volta ricalchi in qualche modo lo stile di combattimento giapponese, dove l'onore ha grandissima importanza, e quindi un nemico, seppur "cattivo" ha comunque un'etica che gli impone di misurarsi contrapponendo una forza "paragonabile" a quella dell'avversario.
In questo modo viene data anche all'impero di Vega una grande dignità, forse maggiore di quella riservata al regno di Mikenes.
Non so quasi nulla di Mazinga, ma mi sembra di ricordare battaglie in cui Mazinga Z deve affrontare tanti mostri contemporaneamente.

Se ci sono altre domande, credo che Ieko e Ataru siano sempre disponibili ad aiutarci! :diablo:



I put in the first post questions and answers, and I thank Joe, Ieko, Ataru and Runkirya for the translation.

I paied attention to the question about the monsters of Vega: I liked the first view above all. Vega sends one monster and not more to trace the japanese way of fighting, where honour is the most important thing.
So the enemy, even thought he's "bad" , has an ethic behaviour that forces him to fight with a power which is comparable with the one of the opponent.
In this way a great dignity is given to Vega's Emperor, even bigger than Mikene's one.

I'm not a Mazinga expert, but I rember Mazinga fighting against many Mikenes monsters in one time.

If you have any other questions, you are welcome, I think Ieko and Ataru will help us again!






 
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view post Posted on 19/10/2010, 11:34     +1   -1
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Anche a Grendizer è capitato di affrontare più mostri contemporaneamente, ma se notate, anche per Mazinger Z e Great Mazinger, ciò avviene in puntate cruciali per la storia . Davvero un bel thread...


Grendizer too had to fight two monsters at the same time, but if you've noticed, even for the Two Mazingers (Z and Great) happened the same thing at crucial moments for the history Great thread, btw...
 
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view post Posted on 19/10/2010, 14:01     +1   -1

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Altre domande? Bè, una serie come Goldrake me ne fa venire in mente davvero tante...per esempio:

- Actarus (Duke Fleed) ha sempre considerato Venusia (Hikaru) solo come un'amica oppure la amava senza farlo vedere in nessun modo?

- Come si chiamava la mamma di Venusia (Hikaru)?

- Come si chiamavano il padre e la madre di Actarus?

- E la madre di Rubina e sposa di Vega?

- Nel pianeta di Gandal tutti si "sposavano" come lui? Cioè, una donna dentro il corpo del maschio o viceversa? :huh.gif:

- Perchè Sayaka non compare mai? Lei e Koji si sono lasciati? Per quale motivo?

- Rubina è stata sepolta sulla Terra? Magari vicino al Ranch Makiba, accanto a Mineo e Naida? :farofflook.gif:

E queste sono solo alcune...meglio se mi fermo qui... :dito:


More questions? Well, Grendizer series reminds me very much questions... for instance:

- Actarus (Duke Fleed) has always considered Venusia (Hikaru) only as a friend or loved her withotut showing it in any way?

- What was the name of the mother of Venusia (Hikaru)?

- What were the names of the father and mother of Actarus (Duke Fleed)?

- And the mother of Ruby and wife of Vega, what was her name?

- In the world of Gandal, everybody is "married" like him? That is, a woman inside the body of the man or vice versa? :huh.gif:

- Why Sayaka never appears? She and Koji are left? Why?

- Rubina was buried on Earth? Maybe close to Makiba Ranch, near Mineo and Naida? :farofflook.gif:

And these are just a few ... It is better if I stop here ...:dito:
 
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ieko
view post Posted on 19/10/2010, 15:42     +1   -1




Hi ! Joe

CITAZIONE
This is in fact the same explanation of Ataru; besides, I read this on the comic book "Dynamic Heroes." But I do not understand very well: how do Koji consider a robot as a "brother a little tired"? Not to mention that, with Mazinger Z, Koji would save many lives, rather than with TFO ... at least I think ...

I think your question is very natural.
So I'like to add something on my explanation.

I'm not sure that you've already know or not about the trouble when Koji was casted in Grendizer.
In the beggining Koji was out of the plan.
Grendizer wasn't Mazinger series. It was made as quite different world.

But Mazinger seriese already made a big success ,so the side of TV production offered to add Koji to keep rating
because he was very popular as hero of children.

Script writers were preplexed or got angry when they heard it.
Maybe they had to change the story and setting up the charactor more and less.

They consented to adding Koji but they didn't need two heroes.
The leader's role was only Duke in Grendizer.

Maybe to express it clearly they decided that Koji never used Mazinger Z.
For fans it seemed strange.
A lot of fans expected Koji will fight with Mazinger Z in the end of story at least.
But it was't realized.
By considering of the particular of a matter,it maybe... possible to say there was no alternative.

“Dynamic Heroes ”was welcomed as the comic in which such fans' dream came true,too.

To be frankly, my last explanation was only excuse little bit strained.

But it's true Koji thought of Mazinger Z like brother or the other self and treated so.
He used to talked to Mazinger Z in an avaition shed alone.
At that time he looked tender and calm.

Maybe it's difficult to understand to think of the robot as living thing.
I guess it will be connected with Japanese ancient religion or how to think by Japanese.
It means Japanese ancient reingion is polytheism.
People beieve that there are uncountable gods.
In natural phenomena, an inanimate object grass, tree, even stone ,spirit dwell.. learning from nature is important. They thought.

Religion is not so important to Japanese but such remain of tradition will influence to us possively.

Sorry,maybe It's a boring digression.



In the end I'd like to tell about one of the difference of Grendizer from Mazinger Z and Great Mazinger.
The main script writer is diffrent.
Grendizer had another main writer.

He has been writing a lot of scripts for the famous and popular animes and tokusatsu.
He wrote Getter Robo, Daikuumaryuu Gaiking, Captian Herrock, Ultraman and so on.
His story has peculiar fascination that's why he has many enthusiastic and maniac fans in Japan.

The character of Duke Fleed seems to be given a lot by him.


Of course I agree with you, Isotta.
Similar point with histrical drama in Grendizer is strangeness that means why enemies don't attack all at once ( same meaning as many).

About infruence of it in the fighting scene( action) the writer referred by himself in interview.


And Lela,thank you! Your avatar looks very nice! :face8.gif:


Then I'm glad to read your questions again,Joe. :farofflook.gif:
Let me think I'm going to answer after !



Hello, xgrendizerx


Thank you for your comment!

I checked the number of monsters that appeared quickly about Z, Great,Grendizer.

Mazinger Z #1,#25,#68,#91,#92 two monsters appeared


Great Mazinger #21,#22,#27,#29,#30,#33,#43,#52,#55 two monsters appeared, but in43,55 there are three monsters!


Grendizer #26,#52,#56 in26,52 three monsters but in52,monsters faught among themselves.



In result I found GreatMazinger had a great numbers of the fighting scene overwhelmingly.
There are three robots in Great Mazinger. It made be possible to fight with some monsters.
Or maybe the staff considered the big battle is GreatMazinger's subject.

On the other hand in Grendizer certainly fighting scene was good.But It seems that psycological description was increased.

Great Mazinger's fight was so hard !
And In the movie Mazinger Z VS Annkoku Daidhougun ( I don't know Italian title ...) there were 14 monsters.

It was so exciting and thrilling. :dribble:

You make me remember that feeling, thank you !


Ciao Joe!

CITAZIONE
This is in fact the same explanation of Ataru; besides, I read this on the comic book "Dynamic Heroes." But I do not understand very well: how do Koji consider a robot as a "brother a little tired"? Not to mention that, with Mazinger Z, Koji would save many lives, rather than with TFO ... at least I think ...

Penso che la tua domanda sia molto naturale.
Così vorrei aggiungere qualcosa sulla mia spiegazione.

Non so se sei al corrente delle difficoltà dell'inserimento di Koji nel cast di Grendizer.
In principio Koji era fuori del piano.
Goldrake non era parte della serie dei Mazinga. Apparteneva ad un mondo completamente diverso.
Ma la serie dei Mazinga ebbe un grande successo, tanto che produzione televisisva propose di aggiungere Koji per mantenere il rating delle altre serie,
perché era molto popolare come eroe tra i bambini.

Gli secneggiatori rimasero perplessi o addirittura si arabbiarono quando sentirono questo.
Forse dovettero cambiare la storia e cambiare dei personaggi

Accettarono di aggiungere Koji, ma non avevano bisogno di due eroi.
Il ruolo del leader era destinato solo a Duke in Goldrake.

Forse per dirlo chiaramente decisero che Koji non avrebbe mai usato Mazinger Z.
Agli appassionati sembrò strano.
Un sacco di fans si aspettavano che Koji si sarebbe battuto con Mazinger Z, alla fine della storia, almeno.
Ma questo non venne realizzato.
Considerandolo un particolare irrilevante, forse ... probabilmente non c'erano alternative ( *ho dubbi sulla traduzione, qui*)
"Dynamic Heroes" venne accolto come il manga in cui il sogno dei fans veniva realizzato.


Francamente la mia ultima spiegazione mi sembra un pò forzata come scusa..
Ma è vero Koji pensa a Mazinger Z come ad un fratello o o come un altro se stesso e lo tratta così.
Aveva l'abitudine di parlare da solo con Mazinger Z nell'hangar
e quando lo faceva diventava dolce e pacato.

Forse è difficile capire che si possa pensare al robot come ad un essere vivente.
Credo che sarà collegato le antiche religioni giapponesi o con il modo di pensare giapponese
Voglio dire che l'antica religione giapponese era politeistica
La gente credeva in innumerevoli dei.
I fenomeni naturali, un oggetto inanimato, l' erba, l' albero, anche la pietra, ospitavano spiriti .. Imparare dalla natura è importante. Questo pensavano.

La religione non è così importante oggi in Giappone, ma le influenze della tradizione restano in maniera importante.

MI dispiace, forse vi sto annoiando..



Infine mi piacerebbe raccontare una delle differenza tra Goldrake, Mazinga Z e Grande Mazinga.
Lo sceneggiatore principale è diverso.
Goldrake ha avuto un altro scrittore principale.

Scrisse molte sceneggiature per anime famosi e popolari e tokusatsu.
Ha scritto Getter Robo, Daikuumaryuu Gaiking, Capitano Herrock, Ultraman e così via.
Le sue storie hanno fascino particolare è per questo che ha molti fans entusiasti e maniaci in Giappone.

Pare che abbia contribuito molto alla creazione del carattere di Duke Fleed.


Naturalmente sono d'accordo con te, Isotta.
Il punto in comune tra il dramma storico e Goldrake è la stranezza che i nemici non attaccano tutti in una volta

Il fatto che questo abbia influenzato la sceneggiatura è contenuto in una intervista allo scrittore ( di Grendizer)


E Lela, grazie! Il tuo avatar sembra molto bello!


E poi Joe mi fa piacere leggere di nuovo tue domande!
Fammi pensare ho intenzione di rispondere più tardi!


Ciao, xgrendizerx


Grazie per il tuo commento!

Ho rapidamente controllato il numero di mostri che è apparso su Z, Grande, Goldrake.

Mazinger Z # 1, # 25, # 68, # 91, # 92 due mostri apparsi


Grande Mazinga # 21, # 22, # 27, # 29, # 30, # 33, # 43, # 52, # 55 due mostri apparsi, ma in 43, 55 ci sono tre mostri!


Goldrake # 26, # 52, # 56 IN 26, 52 tre mostri ma in 52, mostri combattevano tra di loro.



Ifine trovo che Grande Mazinga avuto un gran numero di scene di combattimenti schiaccianti.
Ci sono tre robot nel Grande Mazinga. Questo rende possibile il combattimento con alcuni mostri.
O forse lo staff decise che le grandi battaglie erano il tema principale del Grande Mazinga.

Anche le scene di lotta in Goldrake sono buone, ma l'aspetto psicologico prevale.

Le battaglie in Grande Mazinga erano così dure!
E nel film Mazinga Z VS Annkoku Daidhougun (non so il titolo italiano ...) *forse Generale Nero*? c'erano 14 mostri.

Fu emozionante ed eccitante.

Tu mi fai ricordare quella sensazione, grazie!


Edited by isotta72 - 19/10/2010, 18:28
 
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isotta72
view post Posted on 19/10/2010, 16:56     +1   -1




CITAZIONE
Sorry,maybe It's a boring digression.

Boring???? :face8.gif: :face8.gif: :face8.gif:

you'll get bored of our questions, soon or later, but we'll never get bored of what you share with us.
I can do anything else but thank you, by now, and I'll translate immediately..

and... I have got a question.. as well..


I always thought that designers must have a great fantasy to create the enemy mechas.. do they take inspiration from japanese mythology or popular legends?
If yes, can you give us some examples?

Thanks a lot..
 
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isotta72
view post Posted on 19/10/2010, 17:29     +1   -1




Ho tradotto, come meglio potevo... :dito:

#entry422312373

Runkirya, se vedi errori, correggi...
 
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view post Posted on 19/10/2010, 18:47     +1   -1

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CITAZIONE (ieko @ 19/10/2010, 16:42)
Hi ! Joe

Hi, Ieko! :nagai:

CITAZIONE (ieko @ 19/10/2010, 16:42)
I'm not sure that you've already know or not about the trouble when Koji was casted in Grendizer.
In the beggining Koji was out of the plan.
Grendizer wasn't Mazinger series. It was made as quite different world. But Mazinger seriese already made a big success ,so the side of TV production offered to add Koji to keep rating because he was very popular as hero of children.

I had heard about this: they had entered the character of Koji because he was very popular in Japan. Anyhow, I always thought that Grendizer and Mazinga were in different worlds. They are two very different way of telling.

A curiosity: in Italy, the character of Koji was called Alcor and has not made any reference to his past as a pilot of Mazinger. In fact, in Italy Mazinger came after Grendizer, and the pilot of Mazinger was called Koji Kabuto, not Alcor ... so, we Italian think about Alcor and Koji as two different characters. I know it's a little strange, but true ... :dito:

CITAZIONE (ieko @ 19/10/2010, 16:42)
Script writers were preplexed or got angry when they heard it.
Maybe they had to change the story and setting up the charactor more and less.
They consented to adding Koji but they didn't need two heroes.
The leader's role was only Duke in Grendizer.
Maybe to express it clearly they decided that Koji never used Mazinger Z.
For fans it seemed strange.

In fact, if Mazinger Z had appeared in the Grendizer series, then Grendizer would have been less "leader's role"... rather, perhaps it would not become at all, given the popularity of Mazinga ... I understand the reasons ...

CITAZIONE (ieko @ 19/10/2010, 16:42)
A lot of fans expected Koji will fight with Mazinger Z in the end of story at least.
But it was't realized.

It would be a good scene ... but the ending was, perhaps, too similar to that of the Great Mazinga ... :nagai:

CITAZIONE (ieko @ 19/10/2010, 16:42)
By considering of the particular of a matter,it maybe... possible to say there was no alternative.

I think so too ...

CITAZIONE (ieko @ 19/10/2010, 16:42)
“Dynamic Heroes ”was welcomed as the comic in which such fans' dream came true,too.

In fact, it was a masterpiece... :face8.gif:

CITAZIONE (ieko @ 19/10/2010, 16:42)
To be frankly, my last explanation was only excuse little bit strained.
But it's true Koji thought of Mazinger Z like brother or the other self and treated so. He used to talked to Mazinger Z in an avaition shed alone.
At that time he looked tender and calm.

I remember these scenes... :nagai:

CITAZIONE (ieko @ 19/10/2010, 16:42)
Maybe it's difficult to understand to think of the robot as living thing. I guess it will be connected with Japanese ancient religion or how to think by Japanese.
It means Japanese ancient reingion is polytheism. People beieve that there are uncountable gods. In natural phenomena, an inanimate object grass, tree, even stone ,spirit dwell.. learning from nature is important. They thought. Religion is not so important to Japanese but such remain of tradition will influence to us possively. Sorry,maybe It's a boring digression.

No, no, I don't think this is boring, rather, I think you have grasped the profound significance of this problem.
A "Japanese" Koji would see Mazinga as a "brother" or as something alive.
A "Christian" Koji, instead, would see Mazinga as something not live. Maybe he would like very much the robot, but he never would consider it as something alive...this is inconcepible for Western people, who don't believe in spirits or in the life of inanymated objects.
This is an interesting point...really...

CITAZIONE (ieko @ 19/10/2010, 16:42)
In the end I'd like to tell about one of the difference of Grendizer from Mazinger Z and Great Mazinger. The main script writer is diffrent. Grendizer had another main writer. He has been writing a lot of scripts for the famous and popular animes and tokusatsu. He wrote Getter Robo, Daikuumaryuu Gaiking, Captian Herrock, Ultraman and so on. His story has peculiar fascination that's why he has many enthusiastic and maniac fans in Japan. The character of Duke Fleed seems to be given a lot by him.

And who is this person? :huh.gif:

CITAZIONE (ieko @ 19/10/2010, 16:42)
Then I'm glad to read your questions again,Joe. :farofflook.gif:
Let me think I'm going to answer after !

Think about that calmly ... your answers are very interesting for me and I enjoyed reading, (as I think even all the guys of Gonagainet ... :nagai: )


CITAZIONE (ieko @ 19/10/2010, 16:42)
On the other hand in Grendizer certainly fighting scene was good.But It seems that psycological description was increased.

I had noticed this too ... for this motive I said that Grendizer and Mazinger are very different ...

CITAZIONE (ieko @ 19/10/2010, 16:42)
Great Mazinger's fight was so hard !
And In the movie Mazinger Z VS Annkoku Daidhougun ( I don't know Italian title ...) there were 14 monsters.

The italian title is: "UFO Robot contro gli invasori spaziali" ("UFO ROBOT against space invaders": it is a collage of many films, in which there is "Mazinger Z VS Annkoku Daishogun")

CITAZIONE (ieko @ 19/10/2010, 16:42)
It was so exciting and thrilling. :dribble:

I know...I remember again that wonderful work! :face8.gif:

Thank you very much for your answers! You are too kind! :inchino:
 
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isotta72
view post Posted on 19/10/2010, 19:43     +1   -1




CITAZIONE (joe 7 @ 19/10/2010, 19:47)
CITAZIONE (ieko @ 19/10/2010, 16:42)
Great Mazinger's fight was so hard !
And In the movie Mazinger Z VS Annkoku Daidhougun ( I don't know Italian title ...) there were 14 monsters.

The italian title is: "UFO Robot contro gli invasori spaziali" ("UFO ROBOT against space invaders": it is a collage of many films, in which there is "Mazinger Z VS Annkoku Daishogun")

Trovato: da Encirobot:

[マジンガーZ対暗黒大将軍] Mazinger Z tai Ankoku Daishougun (Mazinga Z contro il Generale Nero)

"UFO ROBOT contro gli invasori spaziali " non è quello con il doppiaggio un pò... diciamo... particolare, dove Actarus è Icarus? Che credo abbia più o meno gli stessi contenuti di "Goldrake contro Mazinga" solo che questo ha un doppiaggio più corretto ( non sono sicura però.. io ho solo Goldrake contro Mazinga..)





Edited by isotta72 - 20/10/2010, 08:25
 
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view post Posted on 20/10/2010, 07:38     +1   -1
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If I was going to kill you, you'd already be dead

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CITAZIONE (ieko @ 19/10/2010, 16:42)
Hello, xgrendizerx


Thank you for your comment!

I checked the number of monsters that appeared quickly about Z, Great,Grendizer.

Mazinger Z #1,#25,#68,#91,#92 two monsters appeared


Great Mazinger #21,#22,#27,#29,#30,#33,#43,#52,#55 two monsters appeared, but in43,55 there are three monsters!


Grendizer #26,#52,#56 in26,52 three monsters but in52,monsters faught among themselves.



In result I found GreatMazinger had a great numbers of the fighting scene overwhelmingly.
There are three robots in Great Mazinger. It made be possible to fight with some monsters.
Or maybe the staff considered the big battle is GreatMazinger's subject.

On the other hand in Grendizer certainly fighting scene was good.But It seems that psycological description was increased.

Great Mazinger's fight was so hard !
And In the movie Mazinger Z VS Annkoku Daidhougun ( I don't know Italian title ...) there were 14 monsters.

It was so exciting and thrilling. :dribble:

You make me remember that feeling, thank you !

[color=blue]

You're quite welcome, Ieko! It's a great pleasure to share the excitement and the thrill, because i've always loved such kinda multiple brawls :asd:
Expecially in Great Mazinger the fights are quite brutal and aggressive, because Tetsuya is far more skilled than Koji, Great is more powerful than Z (so are the monsters) and the fights are faster than before. About Grendizer you got a point too: the psychological aspect is surely massive than before, all-out surrounding: fights, dialogues, humans, aliens... all of it is more complex.
The topnotch brawl of all times is sure as hell in "Mazinger Z vs Ankoku Daishogun", expecially when Great comes out and starts to kick some serious butts WITHOUT A SCRATCH ON HIM!!! WOOOOOOOOAH!!!! :face8.gif: I felt the same way watching Mazikaiser vs Ankoku Daishogun, that basically is the same thing. ;)
 
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view post Posted on 20/10/2010, 11:49     +1   -1
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CITAZIONE (isotta72 @ 17/10/2010, 14:21)
Abbiamo discusso varie volte sulle incongruenze "temporali" della serie, viste dell'anime che non collimano con i manga e situazioni poco chiare sia a livello di doppiaggio, sia a livello di narrazione attraverso le immagini.. quanto dura la guerra su Fleed, quanto tempo passa tra la fuga di Duke ed il suo arrivo sulla ...

My question for Ieko is:

What about Vega planet?

One episode shows it explodes, other after (Murus, the episode abtou the scientist with frozen ray) show it still exist but burning with dying people inside.

Daisuke and Koji really let vegans die?
Does Zuri (italian translation of planet where is from Zuril, the man with bat wings instead of ears that works with Gandal) let them burn?

 
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ieko
view post Posted on 20/10/2010, 21:36     +1   -1




Hi! Joe

Thank you for your comment ! :dio:

Before answer your another questions I'd like to tell a little more about the following.

CITAZIONE
I had heard about this: they had entered the character of Koji because he was very popular in Japan. Anyhow, I always thought that Grendizer and Mazinga were in different worlds. They are two very different way of telling.

A curiosity: in Italy, the character of Koji was called Alcor and has not made any reference to his past as a pilot of Mazinger. In fact, in Italy Mazinger came after Grendizer, and the pilot of Mazinger was called Koji Kabuto, not Alcor ... so, we Italian think about Alcor and Koji as two different characters. I know it's a little strange, but true ...

That's news to me. I've thought Koji's name in Italy is Alcor only.
As you said it sounds little strange but I think his virue and substance will never change even if his name is changed. :face8.gif:



CITAZIONE
No, no, I don't think this is boring, rather, I think you have grasped the profound significance of this problem.
A "Japanese" Koji would see Mazinga as a "brother" or as something alive.
A "Christian" Koji, instead, would see Mazinga as something not live. Maybe he would like very much the robot, but he never would consider it as something alive...this is inconcepible for Western people, who don't believe in spirits or in the life of inanymated objects.
This is an interesting point...really...

Thank you very much! I'm glad you say so.

The name of the robot “Mazinger”has double meaning. Maybe you know...
It means “Machine”and “Majin”
“Majin”is fierce god.
This machine maid god will become both god or devil.
When Koji's grandfather gave Koji this robot as legacy,he said to Koji “Choose to be god or devil as you like.You can conquest the world
by using this robot...”

Koji chose to use the robot for the peace of the world.



CITAZIONE
And who is this person?

Sorry, I didn't wrote his name.

He is Shozo Uehara.( 上原正三 )



Well,let's go to more questions.


- Actarus (Duke Fleed) has always considered Venusia (Hikaru) only as a friend or loved her withotut showing it in any way?


This question has various expiantions in Japan.

Duke Fleed said nothing of his mind about her.

It was told in the memorial book Duke noticed her love but he thought he can't return Hikaru's mind.
In this case, maybe he thought of his duty and destiny.
He knew Vega will come to the earth sooner or later.
After Vega appeared he had to fight at the risk his life.

And Vega arrived,then by a sequela of Vegatoron he had but some months to live.
Maybe Duke took a fancy for her in the bottom of his heart but I couldn't say so for some reasons.


there is another guess,too.

Duke liked her as younger sister.
He really cared about her but it wasn't love like with Naida or Rubina.

In the movie “Utyuu enban daisensou”「宇宙円盤大戦争」 (it's the base of Grendizer) Hikaru's role was like this.


- What was the name of the mother of Venusia (Hikaru)?

- What were the names of the father and mother of Actarus (Duke Fleed)?

- And the mother of Ruby and wife of Vega, what was her name?

All of them weren't given their own names.


- In the world of Gandal, everybody is "married" like him? That is, a woman inside the body of the man or vice versa?

To be honest it's a riddle even they are a married couple or not.
I've read in the book lady Gandal is anorher personality of Gandal has woman's figure.

- Why Sayaka never appears? She and Koji are left? Why?

The reason for it is same as koji didn't ride Mazinger Z.
If Sayaka appered it seemed strange that Koji didn't use Z more and more.
They kept in touch with or even if haven't seen for a long time they believed in each other.


- Rubina was buried on Earth? Maybe close to Makiba Ranch, near Mineo and Naida?

Yes. But the place can't be specified.
About Mineo, She died at the sea. After then it isn't clear where she was buried.
If she was buried near by the sea ,there is not sea in a region Duke lived,so the place Mineo was buried will be far from Rubina.


Please ask me anytime, any question.
I'm not sure my answer is good for you but I'll do my best. :face5.gif:



Hi! xgrendizerx

Yes, I agree with you ! Tetsuya is professional.
When Greatmazinger appered with a thunder in Mazinger Z VS Ankoku daishogun, Children were mad about it.
I like the opening of TV version especially.

image






Hello! GiannniAlcor!

Thank you for your question.


CITAZIONE
What about Vega planet?

One episode shows it explodes, other after (Murus, the episode abtou the scientist with frozen ray) show it still exist but burning with dying people inside.

Daisuke and Koji really let vegans die?
Does Zuri (italian translation of planet where is from Zuril, the man with bat wings instead of ears that works with Gandal) let them burn?

In episode 51 The planets in nebula of Vega started to explode one after another by Vegatron radioactivity contamintion.
All planets were contaminated by overploitation.
At that time The planet Vega was still safe and alive.

In episode 52 At last it happened.
Zeta 4 was the satelite of the planet Vega,which had high purity Veganium.
Energy used in Vega was almost supplied from Zeta 4.

At the mine of Vegatron ,the explosive accident broke out and other mines bursted with a chain reaction.

Finally Zeta 4 disappeared with big explosion.

Vegatron radioactive dust poured on the planet Vega.
The atmosphere was contaminated,the Vega became a planet of death.

Then King Vega decided to emigrate to the earth with only his army on the space ship and left his planet and the citizens.

To emigrate to the earth Vega have to destroy Grendizer.
The spaceship moved toward the skullmoon.

At the same time Gandal and Zuril heard of the tragedy in skullmoon.
They thought that they lost the place to return so they have to manage to destroy Grendizer.
And they were afraid of arriving the commander Dantos becaue he was more talented than them....

Is this answer suitable for your question?

If it is not, please say so. I'll try again! :wahaha.gif:



I'm so impressed by Italian fan's splendidness.
Wide range of vision, passion, knowledge..

It's a simply marvelous. :face8.gif:




Ciao Joe!

Grazie per il tuo commento! :dio:

Prima di rispondere vorrei dire qualche cosa in più relativamente a questo:

CITAZIONE
I had heard about this: they had entered the character of Koji because he was very popular in Japan. Anyhow, I always thought that Grendizer and Mazinga were in different worlds. They are two very different way of telling.

A curiosity: in Italy, the character of Koji was called Alcor and has not made any reference to his past as a pilot of Mazinger. In fact, in Italy Mazinger came after Grendizer, and the pilot of Mazinger was called Koji Kabuto, not Alcor ... so, we Italian think about Alcor and Koji as two different characters. I know it's a little strange, but true ...

E' una novità per me. Pensavo che l'unico nome di Koji in Italia fosse Alcor.
Come dici tu suona strano, ma credo chela sua sostanza non cambi anche se cambia il nome.


CITAZIONE
No, no, I don't think this is boring, rather, I think you have grasped the profound significance of this problem.
A "Japanese" Koji would see Mazinga as a "brother" or as something alive.
A "Christian" Koji, instead, would see Mazinga as something not live. Maybe he would like very much the robot, but he never would consider it as something alive...this is inconcepible for Western people, who don't believe in spirits or in the life of inanymated objects.
This is an interesting point...really...

Grazie, sono contenta di sentirtelo dire!

Il nome del robot "Mazinger" ha un doppio significato. Forse lo sai..
Significa "macchina" e "Majin"
"Majin" è un dio feroce.
La macchina resa "dio" può dicventare sia "dio" sia "diavolo".
Quando il nonno di Koji gli consegnò il robot in eredità, disse a Koji: "scegli se essere un dio o un demone, a tuo piacimento. Puoi conquistare il mondo usando questo robot.."

Koji scelse di usare il robot per portare la pace nel mondo.

CITAZIONE
And who is this person?

Scusate, non ho scritto il nome ( sceneggiatore di Grendizer):

E' Shozo Uehara.( 上原正三 )

Ok, ora passiamo alle altre domande:

-Actarus( Duke Fleed) ha sempre considerato Venusia ( Hikaru) solo come amica o l'ha amata senza mostrarlo in alcun modo?

Questa domanda ha diverse risposte in Giappone
Duke Fleed non ha espresso opinioni su di lei.
Nel memorial book venne scritto che lui si accorse del suo amore ma che pensasse di non poterla ricambiare.
In questo caso, probabilmente aveva in mente il suo dovere ed il suo destino
Sapeva che Vega sarebbe arrivato sulla Terra prima o poi.
Quando Vega apparve dovette combattere a rischio della vita.
E in conseguenza del vegatron lui non aveva altro che pochi mesi di vita.
Forse Duke ebbe qualche pensiero per lei in fondo al suo cuore , ma non potè esprimerlo per queste ragioni

Questa è un'altra possibilità:

Duke amava Hikaru come una sorella minore
Aveva cura di lei ma non era amore come per Naida o Rubina
Nel film “Uchu enban daisensou”「宇宙円盤大戦争」 ( il film pilota di Grendizer)questo è il ruolo di Hikaru.

-Qual è il nome della mamma di Venusia?

- Quali sono i nomi dei genitori di Duke Fleed?

- Qual era il nome della moglie di Vega, la madre di Rubina?

I loro nomi non sono noti

- Sul pianeta di Gandal, sono tutti "sposati" come loro? Cioè una donna dentro al corpo di un uomo o vice versa?

Sinceramente è un indovinello anche capire se sono sposati o meno.
Ho letto un licbro dove si diceva che Lady Gandal è solo una seconda personalità di Gandal, come figura femminile.

-Perchè sayaka non compare? Lei e Koji si sono lasciati? Perchè?

Per la stessa ragione per cui Koji non guida Mazinga.
Se Sayaka fosse apparsa sarebbe stato ancora più strano il fatto che Koji non pilotasse Mazinga Z
Rimasero in contatto, e credettero l'uno nell'altra anche se non si sono visti per un lungo periodo.

-Rubina venne sepolta sulla Terra? Magari vicino al Ranch Makiba, vicino a Mineo o Naida?

Si, ma non viene specificato dove.
Relativamente a Mineo, lei morì in mare. Dopo non è chiaro dove sia stata sepolta.. se è stata sepolta vicino al mare, non c'è mare nella zona in cui vive Duke Fleed, quindi il posto dove è stata sepolta Mineo è lontano da quello di Rubina.

Chiedimi pure in qualunque momento e qualunque cosa
Non sono sicura che le mie risposte siano buone, ma farò del mio meglio.

Ciao! xgrendizerx

Si, sono d'accordo con te! Tetsuya è professionale

Yes, I agree with you ! Tetsuya is professional.
I bambini impazzirono quando lo videro apparire in mezzo ai lampi in Mazinga Z contro il Generale Nero.
Mi piace la sigla iniziale della serie, in particolare.
image




Ciao Gianni Alcor!
Grazie per la tua domanda


CITAZIONE
What about Vega planet?

One episode shows it explodes, other after (Murus, the episode abtou the scientist with frozen ray) show it still exist but burning with dying people inside.

Daisuke and Koji really let vegans die?
Does Zuri (italian translation of planet where is from Zuril, the man with bat wings instead of ears that works with Gandal) let them burn?

Nell'episodio 51 i pianeti della nebulosa di Vega iniziano ad esplodere uno dopo l'altro per la contaminazione da radiazioni Vegatron.
Tutti i pianeti erano contaminati per eccessivo sfruttamento ( lib. interpr.)
A quel tempo il pianeta Vega era ancora sano e salvo.

Nell'episodio 52 alla fine accadde.
Zeta 4 era il satellite del pianeta Vega , che aveva Vegatron estremamente puro.
L'energia usata da Vega proveniva soprattuto da Zeta 4.
Nelle miniere di Vegatron ci fu un'esplosione accidentale e le miniere cominciarono ad esplodere in una reazione a catena

Alla fine Zeta 4 scomparve in un'enorme esplosione.

Le polveri radioattive arrivarono sul pianeta Vega, l'atmosfera venne contaminata e Vega divenne un pianeta di morte.
Il re di Vega decise allora di emigrare sulla Terra solo con il proprio esercito usando l'astronave madre e lasciò il suo pianeta ed i suoi abitanti
Per insediarsi sulla Teraa doveva distruggere Grendizer.
L'asptronave mader si diresse verso la base Skullmoon
Contemporaneamente Gandal e Zuryl sentirono della tragedia su Skullmon, si resero conto che non avevano più un posto dove tornare e che dovevano sitruggere Grendizer.
Erano preoccupato per l'arrivo di Dantos perchè era più dotato di loro...

E' questa la risposta giusta alla tua domanda?
Se non lo è..dimmelo, proverò di nuovo!

Sono così impressionata dallo splendore dei fans italiani!
Ampie visioni, grande passione e conoscenza..
E' semplicemente meraviglioso...


Edited by isotta72 - 21/10/2010, 09:32
 
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isotta72
view post Posted on 20/10/2010, 22:00     +1   -1




CITAZIONE (ieko @ 20/10/2010, 22:36)
I'm so impressed by Italian fan's splendidness.
Wide range of vision, passion, knowledge..

It's a simply marvelous. :face8.gif:

We are impressed by you, so nice and kind.. and.. full of informations!!!

I have a question, related to Mazinsaga..
the manga never ended, so many things are not explained, but may be some interviews are avaible in Japan, or you discussed about this among fans:

Grendizer is a God and Duke has angel's wings...


How come??

:face8.gif:


 
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isotta72
view post Posted on 21/10/2010, 09:05     +1   -1




Ok! Translation added!

#entry422548027

Here some questions, if you are not bored of us.. ( but don't hurry... we have waited for years... we can wait a little bit more!! :D)

1. There are so many Vega's robots.. so many that designers must have made a great effort of fantasy to create them... do they take inspiration from japanese mythology or popular ancient stories, may be for some of them?
At a certain point, the concept of their mecha changes: at the beginning of the war robots are mechanical machines which are said to be " piloted" by living pilots or "fleedians conditioned brains" ( that's what Naida saiys to Duke in ep.25). When Zuryl arrives, robots become cyborgs: animals that are changed into machines with some experiments and become more powerful and competitive.
Probably Grendizer would have lost the war without the help of support spacers..

2. Uchu enban Daisenso had success in Japan, so that they decided to do Grendizer.. but characters in Grendizer are quite differet: Duke Fleed and Hikaru above all change completely in behaviour and role.. ( and I daresay... fortunately).. why this change if Uchu had success?

3. In italian dubbing, when Blacky sees Grendizer for the first time says something like " that must be Grendizer, I didn't think it could have taken refuge on the Earth", so our version of facts is that Vega didn't follow Duke Fleed during his escape. Is japanese version the same?
If yes.. why Did Vega choose the Earth.. and Japan??

4. Did Duke receive militar training and a training to pilot Grendizer on Fleed?
He seems an expert warrior..

5. There's a screenshot where Duke seems to be prisoner of Vega, before he escapes..can you tell us more about this?

image

6. the question I made in the last post, I put it here:

I have a question, related to Mazinsaga..
the manga never ended, so many things are not explained, but may be some interviews are avaible in Japan, or you discussed about this among fans:

Grendizer is a God and Duke has angel's wings...


How come??



Sorry for so many questions.. take your time and don't hurry...

thanks a lot!!




Ok, ho aggiunto la traduzione! Se non ti sei ancora stancata di noi, avrei qualche domanda anche io, ma non farti fretta.. abbiamo aspettato per anni, possimao aspettare ancora un pò..

1.i disegnatori devono aver avuto una gran fantasia a creare tutti i robot nemici: presero ispirazione dalla mitologia giapponese o da antichi racconti popolari, almeno per una parte di essi? Ad un certo punto, il concetto di mecha cambia: all'inizio della serie sono robots guidati da piloti " vivi" o dai cervelli condizionati dei fleediani ( lo dice Naida duke nell'ep. 25), con 'arrivo di Zuril diventano cyborg: animali trasformati in macchine con qualche strano esperimento e sono molto più potenti e competitivi.. credo che Grendizer avrebbe perso la guerra senza i mezzi di supporto

2. Uchu Endban Daisenso ebbe un gran successo in Giappone, tanto che decisero di fare Grendizer, però vennero fatti molti cambiamenti, soprattutto nel carattere e comportamento dei personaggi ( e per fortuna, direi), soprattutto Duke Fleed e Hikaru, ma perchè questi cambiamenti se il film piolta era piaciuto?

3. nel doppiaggio italiano, quando Hidargos vede Goldrake per la prima volta, dice che non si aspettava di trovarlo sulla Terra, quindi, secondo questa versione, Vega non ha seguito Duke Fleed durante la sua fuga.. allora, perchè Vega arriva proprio sulla Terra.. e in Giappone?

4. Duke ricevette un addestramento militare su Fleed, o venne addestrato a pilotare Grendizer? Sembra un guerriero esperto..

5. Esiste uno screenshot dove Duke appare prigioniero di vega prima della sua fuga.. è stato detto qualche cosa di più riguardo questo aspetto?

image

6. la domanda che ho fatto nel mio post precedente:
In Mazinsaga Grendizer è una divinità e Duke Fleed ha ali d'angelo.. come può essere?

Scusa per tutte queste domande.. prenditi tutto il tempo necessario e non correre.. e grazie mille!!







 
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